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#281162 - 05/30/08 12:23 PM
Re: Useless Facts
[Re: Hope_WA]
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Supreme Oracle
Registered: 05/11/06
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Your logic contains fallacy. Thank you for proving me correct with your own quote from the article. Evidently you did not understand that I said it was misleading because it could be either true or false and if you read carefully they are claiming the myth is incorrect because it makes claims that have not been substantiated. That is flawed logic. It simply means the myth has not been substantiated. Fact (as stated in your source) cellar spiders are spiders. Fact (as stated in your source) Pholcids (including cellar spisers) do indeed have short fangs Fact (as stated in your source) there are no toxicological studies testing the lethality of pholcid venom on any mammalian system Fact - my position - a myth can not be called false just because science has failed to prove or disprove that it is correct.
Another creature often called daddy-longlegs are actually spiders. These long-legged spiders are in the family Pholcidae. Previously the common name of this family was the cellar spiders but arachnologists have also given them the moniker of "daddy-longlegs spiders" because of the confusion generated by the general public. Here, the myth is incorrect at least in making claims that have no basis in known facts. There is no reference to any pholcid spider biting a human and causing any detrimental reaction. If these spiders were indeed deadly poisonous but couldn't bite humans, then the only way we would know that they are poisonous is by milking them and injecting the venom into humans. For a variety of reasons including Amnesty International and a humanitarian code of ethics, this research has never been done. Furthermore, there are no toxicological studies testing the lethality of pholcid venom on any mammalian system (this is usually done with mice). Therefore, no information is available on the likely toxic effects of their venom in humans, so the part of the myth about their being especially poisonous is just that: a myth. There is no scientific basis for the supposition that they are deadly poisonous and there is no reason to assume that it is true.
What about their fangs being too short to penetrate human skin? Pholcids do indeed have short fangs, which in arachnological terms is called "uncate" because they have a secondary tooth which meets the fang like the way the two grabbing parts of a pair of tongs come together. Brown recluse spiders similarly have uncate fang structure and they obviously are able to bite humans. There may be a difference in the musculature that houses the fang such that recluses have stronger muscles for penetration because they are hunting spiders needing to subdue prey whereas pholcid spiders are able to wrap their prey and don't need as strong a musculature. So, again, the myth states as fact something about which there is no scientific basis.
BTW, I read the source as well as other materials but did not paste it into the forum because I thought the link was sufficient. Why clutter up the forum with extra words when there is a link to them. Next time I will state that I read it so you do not have to waste space on my account. 
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#281166 - 05/30/08 12:54 PM
Re: Useless Facts
[Re: Deena]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/14/07
Loc: Eastern Washington state, U.S....
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Deena, I never claimed the myth was false, just that it is a myth. Myth: The daddy-longlegs has the world's most powerful venom, but fortunately its jaws (fangs) are so small that it can't bite you.
Fact: That is a full-fledged Urban Legend, with no basis in fact whatever. This legend is so widespread that many people believe it who should really know better, including some teachers and TV documentary producers. You're belief in this myth is as valid as a belief in Bigfoot.
_________________________
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Henry David Thoreau
His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. "
John 9:2-3
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#281179 - 05/30/08 02:38 PM
Re: Useless Facts
[Re: Deena]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/14/07
Loc: Eastern Washington state, U.S....
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I humbly accept my spanking for my grammatical error. You are confusing truth with fact. Facts have been proven. Something can be true but unproven, but then it isn't a fact. Fact: NOUN: 1) Knowledge or information based on real occurrences 2) Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed 3) A real occurrence; an event Just because something is not within the current scientific knowledge base doesn't mean its not based in fact. Unless it is verifiable, it isn't based in fact, even if it is true. BTW, you should have used “it’s” and not “its” since you were using a conjunction for “it is.” Actually you are posting something that gives a very inaccurate perception. The site referenced above very clearly states that no one knows whether the spider called a daddy long legs has a highly toxic venom for the simple reason that none has ever been collected for scientific analysis (at least we have no record of that). So, what that means is that it could be true or it could be false. Myth: The daddy-longlegs has the world's most powerful venom, but fortunately its jaws (fangs) are so small that it can't bite you.
Fact: That is a full-fledged Urban Legend, with no basis in fact whatever. This legend is so widespread that many people believe it who should really know better, including some teachers and TV documentary producers. If we are talking about true daddy-longlegs, they are non-venomous and the myth is false. If we are talking about a crane fly, which is mistakenly called a daddy-longlegs, they are non-venomous insects, and the myth is false. If we are talking about cellar spiders, which are mistakenly called daddy-longlegs often enough that it has become a term of common usage, the myth may be true or false, but since it is unverified, has no basis in fact. Making unverified statements and passing them off as truth can be dangerous or hurtful, or both. I can hypothetically claim, without proof, that any individual is a pathological liar and a dangerous sociopath. Of course they will deny my claim, but that is exactly what would be expected of a pathological liar. My claim may be either true or false, just like the daddy-longlegs myth. And just like the daddy-longlegs myth, the odds of it being true are quite slim. Neither my hypothetical claim nor the DDL myth are based in fact, they are mere conjecture.
_________________________
"The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." Henry David Thoreau
His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. "
John 9:2-3
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