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#282589 - 06/11/08 01:36 PM Genes behind transsexualism possibly found
Diana_Lynn Offline


Registered: 12/08/03
Loc: Upstate NY

http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/exclusives-nfrm/050511_trans.htm

Quote:
Genes behind transsexualism possibly found

May 11, 2005
Special to World Science

Scientists say they may have found genes that help explain why a tiny percentage of men see themselves as women, cruelly trapped in the wrong body.





A famous transsexual, Christine Jorgensen (1927-1989), born George, who obtained a sex change operation in 1952 in Denmark.

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The researchers say the findings are very preliminary and should be “interpreted with the utmost caution,” due to the small sample size used in their study.

Nonetheless, they say, the results might shed some light on the rare condition, transsexualism. It is estimated to afflict about one in 30,000 men, some of whom follow through on their sense of their correct gender by getting sex-change operations.

More broadly, the research could help clarify one of the most contentious and poorly understood questions in biology: what creates “gender identity”—the sense most people have that they are either a man or a woman.

The feeling is normally rather deep-seated; people don’t need to examine their body shapes to confirm it. It is also considered distinct from the issue of whom a person is sexually attracted to.

The question is how genes, culture or both conspire to produce gender identity.

Transsexualism “raises important questions as to how the gender identity is moulded in humans,” wrote the researchers, who included Susanne Hennigsson of Göteborg University and Mikael Landén of the the Karolinska Institute in Göteborg and Stockholm, Sweden, respectively.

They describe the research in the August issue of the scientific journal Psychoneuroendocrinology.

If their findings are correct, the risk of becoming a transsexual may depend partly on variations in the length of certain segments of DNA where the genetic code “stutters,” that is, a few “letters” of the code repeat themselves in the same order many times.

Notably, scientists found in a study published last December that these repeat sequences may be the sites of some of the most common genetic mutations, and thus may underlie some of the fastest evolutionary changes in life’s history. Evolutionary theory holds that mutations produce evolution, because the occasional mutations that are advantageous spread through populations, changing these populations’ characteristics, and over time gradually create new species.

In that study of last year, researchers found that the muzzle length of dogs depends on the length of certain repeat sequences.

In the transsexualism study, the researchers examined a repeat sequence in each of three genes known to affect the sexual development of the brain, in hopes that one or more of these might shed light on transsexualism. They studied several common variants affecting the length of these repeats in different people.

These variants “are all much more common than is transsexualism” itself, they wrote. “Hence, the goal of this study was not to reveal the primary cause of transsexualism,” but rather to help explain “whether the studied genes may facilitate or prevent” it.

One particular variant seemed significantly associated with the frequency of transsexualism, they found. This variant was in a gene responsible for producing a molecule called ER-Beta. ER-Beta acts as a minuscule gateway that controls the flow of estrogen, a hormone, through the brain during fetal development.

Estrogen is thought to be responsible for wiring the brain in a “masculine” way in males before birth—although, paradoxically, the substance is better known as a female sex hormone. This is because after birth, it influences the development of female sexual characteristics.

The gene that produces the ER-beta receptor contains a section called a CA repeat sequence, so called because C and A are names for two “letters” of the genetic code which, here, are repeated many times in a row.

The researchers found that longer CA repeats were associated with a greater risk of transsexualism in the the study, which included 29 male-to-female transsexuals (men who wish they were women) and 229 healthy males.

It is unknown exactly how this change in the ER-beta gene might contribute to transsexualism, the researchers said. The gene may produce different variants of the molecular gateway, which transmit estrogen more or less easily; but it’s unknown whether one of these might be the reason for the effect, or whether the reason is something else.

Moreover, the researchers found that the two other genes that they studied also seem to influence the risk of becoming a transsexual. But neither of these genes on its own predicted that risk, they found. Rather, specific combinations of all three variants seemed to be more common among transsexuals.

The other two genes studied were genes encoding the production of molecules called aromatase and androgen receptor. These genes, too, are believed to help determine how “masculine” the brain becomes.

More masculine, in this context, means that certain brain structures are relatively smaller or larger in males than in females, possibly reflecting the relative importance of those brain structures in each sex.

Researchers have found that parts of the frontal cortex, the seat of many reasoning functions, and the limbic cortex, involved in emotions, are bigger compared to other brain areas in women than in men. Parts of the parietal cortex, which contributes to spatial perception, and the amygdala, which responds to emotionally arousing information, are bigger in men. A part of the hypothalamus, a brain region that regulates reproductive behavior, is also believed to be bigger in males.

At least one brain region has also been found to be different in male heterosexuals and homosexuals, also a part of the hypothalamus. And more recently, gay and straight men have been found to differ in how their brain responds to a scent in male sweat.

But scientists don’t know whether homosexuality and transsexualism have anything in common biologically, beyond the fact that some people view both as aberrations—and that now, both are being found to have a possible genetic basis.

The idea that genes underlie transsexualism, at least among men who want to be women, has gained support from reports on twin and non-twin siblings who both have “this very rare condition, and from reports on families with more than one member” having it, Henningsson and colleagues wrote.

Gender identity is typically established by 18 to 24 months of age, when “boys come to know they are boys, and girls come to know they are girls,” according to the Merck Manual of Diagnosis and Therapy, 17th Edition.

Some people act in ways typically considered more appropriate for the other sex, but this doesn’t make them transsexuals, as long as they’re comfortable with their physical gender. Rather, transsexuals “believe that they are victims of a biologic accident,” the book says, “and that they are cruelly imprisoned within a body incompatible with their gender identity.”

* * *

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#282601 - 06/11/08 03:40 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Diana_Lynn]
Kristina Roivas Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/05/07
Loc: Vancouver Canada
Well if Science can prove the genetic cause behind Transsexualism that would be a good thing. wouldn't it?

I wonder what "They" would do with the information. Could either have a positive or negative outcome for future generations.

Is Transsexualism a genetic disease/defect to be Stamped out? Or something that is "Supposed" to happen naturally in biology from time to time?
_________________________
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#282624 - 06/11/08 10:24 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Kristina Roivas]
ClaireNB Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/08
Loc: FL
I'm a big fan of knowledge for knowledge's sake, but this could have some scary consequences. I'm not even really concerned about "stamping out" transsexualism at the genetic level... hell, that sounds like a good outcome, to me. I wouldn't blink at trying to correct an extra or missing limb via gene therapy in utero... why not tinker with a brain in utero, as well? Of course, people who believe in souls or other such spookiness might have further misgivings...

The big problem I see is using some set of genetic markers as a necessary diagnostic criterion. If you run into a gatekeeping therapist or 10, you can keep looking for a new one to write a letter... but if a genetic test becomes necessary for hormones/surgery, we risk having some people with genuinely trans identities failing to have the genetic markers and being excluded from treatment.
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#282626 - 06/11/08 11:11 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: ClaireNB]
Vannagirl Offline


Registered: 02/21/07
Loc: Somewhere in the12th Dimension
Even if what they discovered is true,or part of the equation that causes someone to be ts,it"ll be so many years before they can use that information to correct the problem,that maybe by that time people may be tolerant of the situation and not care.Maybe,someday.....
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#282627 - 06/11/08 11:25 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Diana_Lynn]
hollyb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/03
Loc: Northern California
Since they premise their work on a wrong assumption ("men see themselves as women") it is hardly surprising that their work is worthless.

Transwomen are women who see themselves as women, just as non-trans women are women who see themselves as women.

Spot the difference? That's correct - there is no difference. The difference is in birth certificate paperwork, not in vision matters.
_________________________
Holly - who believes that it may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent, moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.... (C.S.Lewis - Irish author 1898-1963)

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#282628 - 06/12/08 12:03 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: hollyb]
ClaireNB Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/13/08
Loc: FL
Holly,

It's pretty clear that there's some equivocation between their use of "men" and "women" and yours... you are (I guess) defining gender according to self-identification... which is fine, I do, too. But, it's pretty clear that that what the researchers are referring to when they say "men see themselves as women" is the mismatch between external genitalia and the perceptions of others, and the self-perception of the individual.
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Sister Pointy Implement of Temperance

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#282634 - 06/12/08 01:08 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: hollyb]
glamazon Offline

Pentultimate Goddess

Registered: 02/06/03
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: hollyb
Since they premise their work on a wrong assumption ("men see themselves as women") it is hardly surprising that their work is worthless.

Since that wording about "men see themselves as women" is not a direct quote from the research, it would be mistaken to assume anything other than that's how the writer sees it. Actually, that may not even be the case; it could be the journalist is writing down to his audience, couching the concept in terms they may more easily understand. So I would not dismiss the research just because it is reported in a way some of us may not agree with.
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#282636 - 06/12/08 03:15 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: glamazon]
galaxygirl Online   sleepy
Jae Mie

Registered: 03/23/07
Loc: Marin County, California
Originally Posted By: glamazon
Since that wording about "men see themselves as women" is not a direct quote from the research

That's right. Plus, the study comes from Sweden:

Originally Posted By: article
...wrote the researchers, who included Susanne Hennigsson of Göteborg University and Mikael Landén of the the Karolinska Institute in Göteborg and Stockholm...

So, between the researchers, the translators (if needed), the journal editors, the reporter, the time passed since 2005, etc., words and ideas may have changed remarkably.

Oh, and, did Susanne forget to change her last name from Hennigsson to Hennigsdottir when she transitioned? (sorry - I couldn't resist. and ya, I know it's Sweden and not Iceland)
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#282662 - 06/12/08 10:45 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: galaxygirl]
Cheryl_Lynne Offline


Registered: 11/19/05
Loc: S.W. Washington
Research in gender and sexual identity, I think it can do good. It could allow all of us to have body changes under medical insurance. If allowed by insurance, I would have my self image corrected. If proved, my family might approve of me. I would like that thou it is not needed. I-AM-TS and Proud! Cheryl_Lynne
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#282715 - 06/12/08 06:00 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Cheryl_Lynne]
Marcella Offline
Anarcho-Nihilist Cow

Registered: 03/31/03
Loc: Barn
Don't fall for the hype.

Usually, processes like this work in a chain of causality: a gen here fails, another there is not active, both things cause a certain protein not to be produced, some receptor goes unused and starts accepting things it should not accept, since it's always empty, etc.

Thing is, everything can be said to have a genetic basis, depending on how causality is defined. I'm sure even one's political views contain some genetic element.

Notice that a lot of this research comes from the interest in other issues. Also note how this is focused on "males": FTMs are largely ignored.

Could be a good thing, yes. But considering how things work, it can be very easy for, say, insurance companies to show a lack of evidence for anything implied that could be good to us, while psychiatrists can show enough evidence for anything implied that could be bad to us.

I'd keep an eye on this. A wary one.
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#282718 - 06/12/08 06:15 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Marcella]
glamazon Offline

Pentultimate Goddess

Registered: 02/06/03
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: Marcella
I'd keep an eye on this. A wary one.

The article is over three years old and the research probably even older. It's a nice point to bring up in a debate with a "bad upbringing" etiology fan, but beyond that I'd not worry about this one too much. Down the road, who can say?
_________________________
"Obama wins, Darlie gets her V-jay-jay. What a great month!"

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#282727 - 06/12/08 09:20 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Marcella]
Tess_au Offline
Frequent Flyer

Registered: 05/27/03
Loc: on the prowl
I know here in Melbourne Australia a few of us had been requested to take part in a Gene study. I love the idea that there will be a definite gene to Define us without the guesswork.

If in the process this transsexualism thingy can be "bred out" of the human gene pool that is surely a good thing. Who would wish what we go through on another human being?

Transsexualism is NOT a Lifestyle choice.
_________________________
"Don't ya think that I don't know
what they say and what they think,
but I don't care"


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Bee Gees
1974 Mr Natural)

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#282729 - 06/12/08 10:33 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Tess_au]
cartografia Offline
honest deviant

Registered: 09/10/06
I read the original paper some years ago - it was mildly interesting as they did show a correlation between unusual ER-beta-2, aromatase encoding sequence and AR, and transsexuality. The method they used, IIRC, was that they weighted the proteins and found then that in trans women the weights were markedly different (in kilodaltons) from the control group. I think it was something like 28 trans women out of 30 showed these differences. The original paper shouldn't be too hard to come by, and I think it was written in English - but I could be wrong since I'm writing this off the top of my head. Could've been in Swedish, too.
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#282730 - 06/12/08 10:35 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: cartografia]
cartografia Offline
honest deviant

Registered: 09/10/06
Erm, right. It's available to the public. See for yourself: Genes and Transsexualism
_________________________
You can't cut self-hate out of a gal. It's got to come out some other way.

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#282756 - 06/13/08 09:51 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: cartografia]
Kristina Roivas Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/05/07
Loc: Vancouver Canada
So it is more or less official Male to Female Transsexuals are "Genetically Defective". It is Just the "why?" now. So may be because the advent of the use of many types of Plastic products in our world? A compound found in some plastics "Mimics" Estrogen.



Edited by Kristina Roivas (06/13/08 09:51 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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#282766 - 06/13/08 10:19 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Kristina Roivas]
Vannagirl Offline


Registered: 02/21/07
Loc: Somewhere in the12th Dimension
I think it"s a random event that happens at a critical point during the pregnancy.Theres mutations that happen in nature all the time.It could be a combination of a certain gene defect combined with a hormonal imbalance in the mother,and it just happens.I know for a fact that my mother was under a lot of stress during the time I was developing,and stress can upset the hormonal balance considerably from what I've read.Those are my thoughts on this topic.Noboby knows for sure at this point anyhow,and until that time comes it's all just personal theories.
_________________________
Embrace The Rainbow And Wonder Of Life,Even Though Sometimes It Cuts Like A Knife...

"Sibling Rail Gun Of Reasoned Discussion"

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#282806 - 06/13/08 02:55 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Vannagirl]
Joan Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/20/03
I believe there are a multitude of factors involved. One is genetic, as being discussed in this thread. The genetics are probably much more complicated than straight Mendelian inheritance. There is a phenomenom known as incomplete penetrance, which means a trait carried as a gene will not necessarily manifest in the individual. This means one member of a pair of identical twins will manifest the trait, but not the other. Of course, one would expect to see a higher incidence of concordance between the twins, than normal random chance.

Also, the hormonal environment in the womb may influence gender identity. Androgen blockers (such as cyproterone acetate), administered during brain development, have been shown to drastically alter the sexual behavior of male animals, such as rats and mice. Specifically, the male rats or mice will show female sexual behavior, exhibiting lordosis in response to the advances of another male rat. The most logical conclusion is: The action of testosterone, acting on the fetal brain, is essential for the behavior patterns to masculinize.

If we are to examine the case of women, with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), we will see confirmation of this hypothesis. Women with AIS are XY, but they do not respond to testoterone because of an anomaly in the Androgen Receptor (AR) on the cell wall. The condition means testerone will not cross the cell membrane. Hence, the testosterone will not act on cell development and metabolism. These women do identify as female and behave like females. It is plausible to conclude that brain development is what determines gender identity, and brain development is determined by the action, or lack of action, by testerone and its metabolites.

The case of congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) also tends to confirm the hypothesis. Some girls are born with CAH, because of an anomaly in the genes affecting the metabolism of the adrenal gland. The result is the adrenal glands produce large quantities of androgens. The result is a masculinization of the girls'behavior. Also, when these girls reach adulthood, they have about a 50% chance of being lesbian. So, we can also infer that the action, or lack of action, of testosterone on the fetus, significant factor in the development of sexual orientation as well as general sexual behavior.

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#282853 - 06/13/08 10:05 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: ClaireNB]
hollyb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/03
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: ClaireNB
Holly, It's pretty clear that there's some equivocation between their use of "men" and "women" and yours... you are (I guess) defining gender according to self-identification...

That's a perfectly reasonable guess, but it's not a correct guess.

I regard the terms "men" and "women" as referring to assigned sex (the sex on paperwork).

And I regard the choosing of which sex to put on the paperwork to be a medical matter.

And I believe the purpose of medicine is to serve the health of the patient in the patients best interest.

And I believe that transwomen's best interests are served when they are given an assigned sex of woman.

And I believe that when a medical mistake is made, even if it is unforeseeable and unavoidable, nonetheless, all that is needed to justify promptly correcting the correctable mistake, is a mere realization that a mistake has occurred.

And that therefore transwomen should be assigned women before hormones and surgery.

And that transwomen, being women, have no cross-gender identity.

And having no cross-gender identity they have neither GID nor gender dysphoria.

And having no gender dysphoria the HBIGDA SOC does not apply to them.

And since the HBIGDA SOC cannot apply, they should be treated the same as non-transwomen who have no vaginas and insufficient breasts (and yes they do exist).

And agreeing with each step above and yet still refuting the conclusion is dishonest, and many medical practitioner who deal with transfolks are, in this way, dishonest.

And if the research is reported accurately it is a load of nonsense.

And if it is not reported accurately we can say nothing useful about it.
_________________________
Holly - who believes that it may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent, moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.... (C.S.Lewis - Irish author 1898-1963)

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#282857 - 06/14/08 12:21 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: hollyb]
glamazon Offline

Pentultimate Goddess

Registered: 02/06/03
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Originally Posted By: hollyb
I regard the terms "men" and "women" as referring to assigned sex (the sex on paperwork).

Does this mean that before governments started recording births on official documents there were no men or women? Of course not. And after we got to that point, sex was officially assigned by the delivering MD by a glance at the genitals. This is why the surgery that reconfigures the genitals to match the personal psychological (or neurological) sex is most properly called Sex Reassignment Surgery, because it changes the genitals upon which the legal sex was assigned in the first place.

P.S. This is also why I find it incorrect to call SRS, "Gender" Reassignment Surgery. When Toby Meltzer did my vaginoplasty, he changed my anatomical sex, not my gender. My gender stayed what it was, female; it was not reassigned. My legal sex was reassigned. Make sense?
_________________________
"Obama wins, Darlie gets her V-jay-jay. What a great month!"

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#282877 - 06/14/08 08:48 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: glamazon]
Deena Offline
Supreme Oracle

Registered: 05/11/06
Personally I seldom think about it and don't care what it is called. I have been attacked for calling surgeries cosmetic so these days I just figure I'd rather let everyone do their own labeling. Call it pisser if ya want (penile inversion surgery so everyone relaxes). wink
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#282878 - 06/14/08 08:48 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: glamazon]
hollyb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/03
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: glamazon
Originally Posted By: hollyb
I regard the terms "men" and "women" as referring to assigned sex (the sex on paperwork).

Does this mean that before governments started recording births on official documents there were no men or women? Of course not. And after we got to that point, sex was officially assigned by the delivering MD by a glance at the genitals. This is why the surgery that reconfigures the genitals to match the personal psychological (or neurological) sex is most properly called Sex Reassignment Surgery, because it changes the genitals upon which the legal sex was assigned in the first place.

P.S. This is also why I find it incorrect to call SRS, "Gender" Reassignment Surgery. When Toby Meltzer did my vaginoplasty, he changed my anatomical sex, not my gender. My gender stayed what it was, female; it was not reassigned. My legal sex was reassigned. Make sense?
Oh dear, where to begin? So many errors in that.

1. You are about the only person to refer to "Gender Reassignment Surgery" it is an old chestnut, an intentionally confusing straw man. Modernly one uses the term GRS for "genital reconstruction surgery" to refer to (for example) penectomy/vaginoplasty - especially when that surgery is performed on someone who is legally female. Or on a similar same-sex basis for metoidioplasty on men etc..

2. Yes, before the recording of sex by governments, there were no men or women - as those terms are understood and used nowadays. I believe such recording started with government in the Kingdom of Mercia in the eighth century, and as such pre-dates the English language with its words men and women. In ordinary usage the words men and women modernly refer to assigned sex. Assigned sex is of everyday interest and is dimorphic. In contrast biological sex is of specialized interest and is bimodal but legion. The terms men and women have limited utility in a context of biological sex.

3. If "Sex Reassignment Surgery" means anything it means "surgery, documentation of which fulfills the requirements (in most jurisdictions) for revised paperwork, especially birth certificate". It is a term favored by our oppressors and flaunted by certain self-entitled elitists and is pejorative. Progress will be advanced by throwing off such offensive and archaic terminology.
_________________________
Holly - who believes that it may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent, moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.... (C.S.Lewis - Irish author 1898-1963)

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#282880 - 06/14/08 08:54 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: hollyb]
Deena Offline
Supreme Oracle

Registered: 05/11/06
I disagree holly. Word-smithing at its best can not obfuscate nature.
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#282892 - 06/14/08 10:42 AM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Diana_Lynn]
Kristina Roivas Offline
Regular

Registered: 09/05/07
Loc: Vancouver Canada
According to the official Affidavit that one receives in order to change the letter "M" to an "F". The one you hand over to vital statistics.

I have had "Transsexual Gender Surgery" Signed By Dr."B"& Dr"M".

Gender Re-assignment Surgery, Sex Re-assignment Surgery, Gender alignment Surgery. Unfortunately to the average "Ham & Egger" on the street. I have had a "Sex Change Operation"

Maybe they should find the "root command" of the broken gene behind Transsexualism and Repair it?/Remove it? Once and for all?
_________________________
If you can't be good. Then at least be good at what you do.

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#282907 - 06/14/08 12:16 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: Deena]
hollyb Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/03
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Deena
I disagree holly. Word-smithing at its best can not obfuscate nature.
Or to rephrase that, "I don't like to be confused by facts and clearly enunciated and logical argument".

Nature relates to biological sex - and biological sex is not at issue here. Sociological sex is at issue and is orthogonal to biology.
_________________________
Holly - who believes that it may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent, moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.... (C.S.Lewis - Irish author 1898-1963)

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#282908 - 06/14/08 12:40 PM Re: Genes behind transsexualism possibly found [Re: hollyb]
Deena Offline
Supreme Oracle

Registered: 05/11/06
Originally Posted By: hollyb
<