GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

Oh dear, where to begin? So many errors in that.

1. You are about the only person to refer to "Gender Reassignment Surgery" it is an old chestnut, an intentionally confusing straw man. Modernly one uses the term GRS for "genital reconstruction surgery" to refer to (for example) penectomy/vaginoplasty - especially when that surgery is performed on someone who is legally female. Or on a similar same-sex basis for metoidioplasty on men etc..

2. Yes, before the recording of sex by governments, there were no men or women - as those terms are understood and used nowadays. I believe such recording started with government in the Kingdom of Mercia in the eighth century, and as such pre-dates the English language with its words men and women. In ordinary usage the words men and women modernly refer to assigned sex. Assigned sex is of everyday interest and is dimorphic. In contrast biological sex is of specialized interest and is bimodal but legion. The terms men and women have limited utility in a context of biological sex.

3. If "Sex Reassignment Surgery" means anything it means "surgery, documentation of which fulfills the requirements (in most jurisdictions) for revised paperwork, especially birth certificate". It is a term favored by our oppressors and flaunted by certain self-entitled elitists and is pejorative. Progress will be advanced by throwing off such offensive and archaic terminology.

I disagree holly. Word-smithing at its best can not obfuscate nature.

According to the official Affidavit that one receives in order to change the letter "M" to an "F". The one you hand over to vital statistics.

I have had "Transsexual Gender Surgery" Signed By Dr."B"& Dr"M".

Gender Re-assignment Surgery, Sex Re-assignment Surgery, Gender alignment Surgery. Unfortunately to the average "Ham & Egger" on the street. I have had a "Sex Change Operation"

Maybe they should find the "root command" of the broken gene behind Transsexualism and Repair it?/Remove it? Once and for all?

Or to rephrase that, "I don't like to be confused by facts and clearly enunciated and logical argument".

Nature relates to biological sex - and biological sex is not at issue here. Sociological sex is at issue and is orthogonal to biology.

Now Holly if you are into denigration by slamming me - or trying to insinuate that I "don't like to be confused by facts" then I might consider taking the gloves off and sending a few malicious personal shots back at you. If, however, you want to live by the site rules and simply state your opinion I will refrain from any tit for tat. Its your choice.

In my opinion those people who want to debate labels could better spend their time in something more productive like say cooking school or doing the laundry. I am perfectly comfortable as me and I am also perfectly comfortable with anyone else labeling me however they want because I can not affect it anyway. Trying to change someone's opinion I have found can only be done through living and even then there is no guarantee.

So play with words all you want but whatever you do please have a wonderful day.

Yeah Kristina I just check a copy of my letter and it also says I had gender reassignment surgery. I wonder if anyone has a letter stating something else? Hey - who cares - the letter made it easy to change my DL after my friends finally convinced me it was important to do that. I really don't care about documents and bureaucracy so I was just going to leave the dl as M. That led to lots of interesting situations when I had to show it because here in Florida most convenience stores and bars now card everyone when selling alcohol. I even had to show it once at the post office to pick up a package.

I was actually having fun watching reactions when I showed my old DL and then had to convince the person that it was in fact mine. I had decided that it was an educational opportunity for them to "wake up" a bit to our reality. My friends however finally convinced me that if I were ever caught inadvertently in a bad situation such as a traffic accident or such I would be much safer with a current picture and a nice big "F" on my license. So I trotted off to the DL place, handed it to the lady and said "I need this fixed". She took my "gender reassignment" letter and proceeded to fix my license. No problem.

Society and its laws are run by words. I don't make the words government is the primary keeper. But they put forward reasonable propositions and then use them against us transfolk by not following their own good words.

Biggest of all is that the PURPOSE of medicine is to act in the subject's best interest as to the subject's health. And that is simply not being done in the case of transfolk. They would not be insisting that transwomen are mental men if they were acting in our best interest and I have spelled out in unassailable detail why this is so.

You can call clear and unrebuttable protest at injustice playing with words.As though playing with words were something less than crucially important in mankind's quest for a better world.

Herebelow is an article I wrote, censored in another place that addresses the issue of the questioned sex of Thomas Beatie.

=========================================================
You ask “Sex and the Law: What Does it Mean to be Male?”
And you ask in the context of the pregnant man Thomas Beatie.

Let me try to answer that.

Paperwork and legal sex are assigned to newborns not by civil servants but by doctors. Usually it is easy for the doctor to make a choice, sometimes it is not easy but nonetheless a choice must be made, it is required by law. What is beyond doubt is that assigning sex is a medical matter and only doctors are qualified to do it.

Given that we are dealing with humans and sometimes the choice is not easy it is inevitable that mistakes will happen, but there is not even agreement on what constitutes a mistake. Some laws insist that mistakes cannot happen, the law is an ass!

But since we agree that assigning sex is a medical matter, we should reflect that the PURPOSE of medicine is ALWAYS to act in the patient’s best interest. And there you have answer - a person’s sex is not determined by religious dogma not by anatomy textbook on uteruses but it is whatever sex serves that person’s best interest.

Which then leaves the 64000 dollar question, “Are adults competent to have control of their own bodies and to decide what is in their own best interest?” OR should they be treated like children who don’t know what is good for them as evidenced by the unquestionably true fact that some people make bad (even stupid) choices?

And of course the answer is - opinions will vary - it largely depends on whose ox is getting gored tonight.

I’m sure I’m competent do direct my own life, but I’m not sure you are competent to direct yours! See what I mean?

I would like to see your source for that statement. That is only your opinion. Even if you want to cite Hypocrites it is still only opinion. From my experience many people get medical degrees and practice medicine as a career primarily because they enjoy it and can make good money at it.

Here again is an undocumented opinion. Very few people are on a quest for a better world but rather on a personal quest which may or may not be aligned with that objective.
I think you are attempting to say that the law grants them that legal right. Its not that only doctors are qualified but rather that if one is present at birth then the doctor states the sex. In my opinion God assigns it.

No we do not agree.

There you go again repeating a flawed personal opinion and wanting others to simply go along.


Certainly not all adults are sane in my experience.

in my opinion that is fairly accurate.

By my own admission I am nuts but I still assert my inalienable right to direct my own life. And that is why I don't give a nat's ass about SOC or any classifications some self serving members of the medical community want to enshrine in some stone or paper tablets. I chose to pay for the services I wanted in a place where they are sold like breast augmentation and other cosmetic surgeries are sold here in the U.S. The result was clearly stated by the licensed physician as Gender Reassignment Surgery. Nothing more nor nothing less.

Am I now? Gee, I guess these websites are just a figment of my imagination.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery
http://www.poustiplasticsurgery.com/Procedures/Procedure_genderReassignment.htm
http://www.supornclinic.com/
http://www.altermd.com/Transsexual%20Surgery/gender_reassignment.htm
http://www.surgeryencyclopedia.com/Pa-St/Sex-Reassignment-Surgery.html
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=71261
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-involved-in-gender-reassignment-surgery.htm
(And this was just what I found in two minutes.)



Fascinating. And what were people with penises or vaginas called back then before sex was recorded in government documents?


Hmmm, so that makes me either an oppressor or a "self-entitled elitist." Thank you, Holly; I'm a huge fan of yours, too.

BTW, if you type "Sex Reassignment Surgery" into Google, you will doubtlessly find yourself amazed, even shocked, at just how many oppressors and self-entitled elitists there are out there. Be afraid, Holly. Be very, very afraid!

Some parts of a person's temperament are genetic. The shy child for example that's been raised no differently than the outgoing child.

I don't see why there isn't at least one gene that MAY contribute to this. Nor do I see eugenics being practiced here. One parent may carry this gene, or both may carry it. This has not stopped people from trying to have children even when there is a 1 in 4 chance of the child having a fatal genetic disorder, and they don't seem to be concenerned if the child has a 1 in 2 chance of becoming a carrier for that fatal genetic disorder.

So given that there is a gene that MAY cause transexualism, does it always cause it, or does it sometimes cause it, is it autosomal? is it random in its expression? does it require certain conditions in the womb to activate?

The other thing is that the tests are going to be expensive and only the very wealthy will be able to afford to be that picky.