GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

The bad news first: you're never going to be a cute little thing.

The good news: jerks will think many times before messing with you.

There is much variation in men and women, and you're going to find women of any size if you look for them. Let's talk about clothes, though:

- at 5' 10" and above, you'll need tall sizes. It can reduce your choices, but the styles are nice.

- at 3' 1" around the chest, it means your bra band is 40 or 42. You'd have to try them. 40 is a common number, and finding bras in 40C or 40D is easy. However, chances are you'll need 40A when you start and 40B after. 40B is uncommon, but exists. 40A is very, very rare. If you're 42, it gets a lot more complicated and you may need to use extenders on a size 40 bra.

- size, that is the big one. Clothes after a size 16 become quite drab and the choices for nice, elegant clothes is small. Same for shoes above a size 10. Your BMI is almost 30, so it'd qualify as "overweight," but BMI doesn't tell the whole story. With your frame, losing over 10 Kg could be bad news: it can make passing harder, because when you're way too slim the bone structure under your skin shows more easily.

Right now, you must be a size 16-18, which puts you on the limit of the "good choices for clothes." If you can lose to 85 Kg without losing too much of the fatty layer under the skin, you'd be in the 14-16 range, which makes finding nice looking clothes much easier.

A 5' 11", size 16 woman is nothing out of the ordinary around here, by the way.

I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that you "only" have 17 kilos of body fat. There are some pinch measurements that purport to determine the percent body fat (of total weight). There are some rather expensive bathroom scales that provide a percentage body fat based on electrical conductivity. I'm not sure how accurate either of the algorithms used for these estimates are. The only really accurate measurement of body fat is to compare your weight dry with you weight while being fully suspended in a tank of water. Unfortunately, there are very few facilities capable of dangling you from scales while sitting in a swing and being dunked in water over your head. I just Googled “body fat” and came up with several hits on how to calculate percentage body fat.

On the other hand, 17 kilos of body fat with a total weight of 95 kilos is almost 18% body fat. I think you could realistically consider reducing that to 12%, or 84 kilos (184 lbs). Actually, I think your waist measurement of 3’1” is pretty big for your height, and may indicate you store fat in your abdomen rather than under the skin. One of the Google “body fat” calculators was from “Runners World” magazine <http://www.runnersworld.com/bodyfatcalc/>, and included several body measurements – including the waist.

I highly recommend the book “The New Fit or Fat” by Covert Bailey. It was published several years ago, but copies are still available from Amazon. Be prepared to leave your ego behind, you may find your carrying more fat than you thought. Also be prepared to work to get rid of it, one of the chapters in the book is “Diets Still Do Not Work”. Bailey wants you to exercise!

I think 3' 1" was for her rib cage, which is quite a bit more than the waist. 37" is not huge by any means. There are bras for women who are 42"-50" around the rib cage out there.

For women in their 30s, I've seen that a very common rib cage measurement is 33" to 35" (I visit a couple of diet boards, I like keeping my weight under control and mutual encouragement works).

Just before I almost finished killing myself with food and drink (I was thinking it might be a more pleasant way than
say guns or rope), I weighted in at (ahem) 240 lbs, (108 kg)
and of course, I didn't change in height any.

It occurred to me in a flash, that rather than dying, I might
,hell, I might do anything, I might live the life I'd always
dreamed of, wished for,etc.

Now, I must say,I had experienced some rather extraordinary
gains and losses thru out my life (such as painfully gaining
16" in height in 18 months as a pre-teen),which took me from
chubby to nastily skinny, but had primarily been more medium
as a youth, to slightly underweight as a teen and 20.

From my own extreme effort starting at age 39, I was able
to lose about 95 lbs over a 2 year period, from switching
to a raw vegan diet and doing ,on average 90 minutes of
mild to intense exercise a day (google "interval training").

So, my results during that time,were:

1. 238 --> 134 lbs
2. I lost significant body/muscle(and seemingly bone) mass
A. Specifically, the distance between my shoulders shrank
from perhaps 8 to at a minimum of 6 inches.
B. I lost 3 shoe sizes (but I did also previously have a
good deal of edema in my feet and legs)
C. I have old shirts,where the shoulder seam used to hit
me evenly on the right spot, that, later, it went down
halfway my upper arm. My shoulder shrank. I don't know
how else to explain it.
3. I made some specific efforts to do , exercises to
emphasize the femininity of my body.
4. As a pre-teen, teen and 20, I'd had a very androg body
even while working overtime to build muscle mass,etc.


SO. I mention all of thise to say:

1. Is it possible? yes
2. Is it EASY, not in the least,
A. you have to learn to , dare I say, Eat like a girl
and exercise like one too. (i.e starve and also work
your butt (or shoulders, or whatever) off
3. Can it work for you? I did all of this before restarting
(I'd been on estrogen for 3 years in my 20s and it made me
easily gain weight, so I knew I *had* to take action for my
goals) ,before restarting HRT, because I knew it would be
almost impossible afterwards, even starving and exercising
like a demon. So, it is POSSIBLE, for most (90?%) of folks
but that is still no guarantee for you.

4. I specicfically tried to go BELOW an ideal weight
so that I could restart HRT and gain 10 lbs back and
have it in the right places.

5. You CAN LOSE MUSCLE MASS from a very low protein and
low fat diet. it is very important to keep high cardio
activities and low "strength" (high reps/low weight),etc.

No guarantees, it is possible, its not easy. takes some
serious commitment.

I'm only going to leave this up for 24 hours or so.
Before and after SOLEY WEIGHT LOSS: before h4t
left is 1996, after is 2001
http://cgi101.com/~srl/dvm/b4/b4-after.jpg



7 years later, 1 week ago on my b-day, I've gained back
(eeek) like 40 lbs, grrrr
http://s3.amazonaws.com/facestat/thumb/298851e42cfabd23d80898337657346a.jpg


ALso, please remember, all this weight/body is basically body/health management TOUGH STUFF, that NOTHING directly
to do with transition. transition nastiness, loss
etc, is maybe tougher? it differs, so

Try this:
try a very intensive weight loss,exercise program like I
did, hire a personal trainer, or something, starve,but
eat healthy (yes, impossible, I realize)

regardless of transition, you'll probably feel better
its very relieving to just feel rejuvenated.

also try googling "perricone diet"

Re: how to post pics

right click photo, pick copy shortcut or
copy image url, then post that, then folks can see it

You OUGHT to have a panel in your posting that includes
a bunch of icons one of which loooks like :
http://www.genderlife.com/forum/images/markup_panel/default/image.gif

click that, a popup box should appear where can paste
in the URL of whatever pic

PLEASE BE CAREFUL about posting pics.
Andrea has a big essay on that on tsroadmap
about privacy.

Just try the diet/exercise regimen, regardless of
transition, you'll feel better and live longer for
that and nothing else.

best of luck.

37 inches around the rib cage I think is not large at all for males. It is a bit big for females but not overly.

Mine is around 36-37 and I use a 36 or 38 inch band size for bras. Not tight just comfy snug. My girls would slide out of a 42.

Face clearing and HRT are the big factors along with voice and social conditioning.

It is possible to lose a lot more weight than you think. I also didn't exercise much, but T makes you put on muscle without having to try that hard.

I'm 5' 8.5", and I went from 185 lbs in April 07 down to 143 lbs in October 07. I never thought that I would be able to lose that much weight, but I just watched (carefully) what I ate and got a moderate amount of cardio. I still had a bit more fat around my waist than I wanted, too. After having been on HRT for the last 8.5 months I'm back up to 155 lbs, but have essentially forced to satisfy what feel like ridiculous cravings. Some of the weight went back on my waist, but also breasts, and hips/thighs. I now actually feel chubby again at 155, a weight that I never thought I could actually achieve.

My hope is that post-SRS, once my estrogen levels become less extreme, the cravings will become more controllable, and I'll seek getting to around 140 lbs.

For the record, my underbust is at 35", and I wear a 34A or 36A, depending on the manufacturer. Like jenny_w, not tight just snug. If you look at the sizes the common range is from 34 to 42, with 36-40 being the most common.

You can do it. You and I are the same height and I went from 155 down to 115 which is the same 40 lbs you lost. And yes I went from a 36 underbust measurement down to 32. I agree most important is avoiding anything with grease including meats, fries and such. Also avoid starches and sugar. I eat mostly steamed veggies and some fish with occasional indirect heat grilled chicken.

Wrong. My mother was my height less one inch and she was always about 110 lbs. The same holds true for my first and second cousins. In fact the figures for those who walk the runways in the fashion magazines are 5 foot 7 to 5 foot 10 and 110 to 120 lbs. My breasts are 34 B cup and I have never had any chest surgery, just hrt. Waist is 26 and hips are 34. I just measured all 3 to make sure those are current numbers. Now maybe you consider that having no figure but size 2 fits me wonderfully from most manufacturers and 1's and 3's in misses sizes.

QR: Something doesn't add up here.

The band of a bra is supposed to be rib cage + 4 inches, rounding up or down depending.

So if you're 37" around the rib cage, counts as 41" band and that is either a 40 or 42.

I'm 34" around and 38 in bras, sometimes 36. I could never fit a 34, and I find it puzzling that someone who is 35" could take a 34 band size.

Are you gals sure you're measuring correctly?

I've been mystified by this as well. I went out and found the same information on a variety of sites, claiming that the bra band size is supposed to be rib cage + 4 inches. At the time I was a bit lighter and my ribcage was at 34", measured just below my bust. So I went and tried on a 38, and they were just plain too big on me. Maybe I'm measuring in the wrong place, but that big a bra just doesn't fit me. The only thing I've noticed is that my ribcage is not as tapered as my cisgendered girlfriend's. Her ribcage tapers down toward her natural waistline, while mine is much straighter. Perhaps the bra designers are assuming this taper, and my not having it means I don't obey their rules? Most of my bras are now a 36, the 34 I can only wear because I've had it a while and it stretched out.