GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

...here is a news story from England:
Man cleared of transsexual murder
A teenager has been cleared of killing a transsexual woman found strangled in her south London home.

Shanniel Hyatt, 18, denied that he killed Kellie Telesford in a rage after discovering she was a pre-operative transgender female who was born a man.

Her body was found after they engaged in sexual activity at her Thornton Heath flat, the Old Bailey heard.

Mr Hyatt, from Norbury, south London, was found not guilty of murder and an alternative count of manslaughter...



It appears that killing one of us is no big deal anywhere in the world. I guess I'll start wearing one of these:


At least it will help me pass better.

Add in a little sexy armor:

Nope still not feeling safe

Yes There is still some danger for Transsexuals even in 2008.

This incident is the worst case catch 22 when you are still Pre-op. The U.K is more conservative then America.

The Law courts are of no real help.

She's lucky she only got murdered.

That is exactly why, some transwomen become proficient with firearms, get concealed weapons licenses, and carry a handgun.

That just increases your likelyhood of getting killed.

But wait....when do we ever hear of a boomer Ts getting murdered? Well, we know why that is.

Maybe it's just a matter of time until we also become like them and start carrying arms. In a world full of violent people ready to kill you if they think they can get away with it, it makes sense.

well thats croydon for ya innit ? thornton heath is in the north croydon area and is a depraived area and hosts the large illegal immigrant hostels in the uk tensions are rife there and at least a murder a day is nothing new it has racial tensions as well as everything there

and thats no excuse for this knob to kill that poor girl is it ...

but in there law its par for the course and killing someone for being different is the norm

i mean if u aint into rnb and dress different like say a goth u get picked on over there ive seen it first hand so what chance did this poor ts have ?

Absolutely appaling this is

But i must say letting everyone have a gun aint the way forward over here believe me it would make things worse

we aklready have a knife crime wave goin on people gettin stabbed to death for looking at someone or dancin with someones girlfriend ...or to win respect

Generation of tossers over here my generation would have squashed these people in a blink of an eye

Maybe im gettin old eh lol

Despicable and horrendous as this murder was and even more-so the verdict in court, we are not alone in the UK in having a system which is actively weighed against the most disadvantaged or different in society. I've not spent anytime researching TS murders in the USA but based on my knowledge of America's love of arms there are bound to have been several murder cases in the past few years! (My apologies in the highly unlikely event I am wrong!!)

I totally agree with Natalie, introducing guns IS NOT the way forward! A country where many of my friend live has the highest amount of arms in circulation, it is also the country where you have by far the highest chance of getting killed by a gun!!

That would depend upon how well you train, that is why I said "become proficient". That not only means basic marksmanship, but also learning threat recognition and management.

It does help to have law enforcement friends, especially police firearms instructors. However, there may be an innate aptitude, that makes it easier to learn threat recognition and management.

The most important skill is being able to avoid places, where the danger level increases to unacceptable levels. That may mean avoiding some modes of mass transit and mass transit stations. In many cities, mass transit lines, such as light rail, may be a point of congregation for criminals (like drug dealers, etc.). In that case, it is prudent to avoid those locations.

I think such things can still happen in the US too and far worse nightmares can occur in other parts of the world. It's so very sad that our lives have less value.

kat

It is really sad.

Things like that do happen. The only thing, I know to do, is to make oneself a difficult and very expensive target.

Guns kill and in the wrong hands are lethal weapons
they kill u for a bag of chips in croydon
and i can tell ya from experiemce that people threaten to shoot each other or blade each other over a silly dissagreement
i mean like u Just saying No

Giving everyone a gun will just escalate the problem Over here its Total Nonsense to suggest it wouldn't

America may allow gun law but No way will europe ...and rightly so in my opinion


as these type of crimes will get worse and more frequent and make it an even more lawless society to live in

I'm more concerned with the likelihood of getting killed, than the liklihood of getting killed with a gun. While it's true that the UK has stricter gun control than the US and a lower murder rate per capita, there is evidence that one is not a reliable predictor of the other. For example, Mexico has gun control laws that are much more strict than those in the US, but also a much higher murder rate per capita. Meanwhile, Norway has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the world, and a much lower murder rate than the UK. I think the unavailability of a gun merely means the murder will be performed with another instrument, such as a knife, pipe wrench, automobile, etc.

In view of the above, I am in favor of handguns being made available to trustworthy citizens. In particular, I think women need to own handguns, as handguns are the only tool by which the average women can gain physical threat parity with the average man.

Unfortunately, most women do not carry handguns because of the fear that one of their young children will find it and play with it. As a result, I think commercial availability of child safe handguns is a priority. Accordingly, I am extremely disappointed with the stance of the NRA and the gun manufacturers in opposition to placing such safety mechanisms on firearms.

It has been proven that the technology to make handguns child safe has been available for years. But gun manufacturers are afraid that demonstrating its feasability by making such a product will result in passage of legislation requiring placement of those measures on ALL handguns. The bottom line is that the child safe handgun is not available, so women don't buy handguns, so only men own handguns, so women feel threatened by men with handguns, so women advocate for gun control, so gun manufacturers do not view women as potential allies and a huge untapped market, so gun manufacturers do not make the child safe handgun. It's ironic.

Glinda ? that is the biggest load of rubbish i have ever read ...sorry to say hon

it is like giving a rope to ted bundy and saying here u go mate is this what you are looking for

or giving Gary glitter a couple of kids to play with

seriously though
the kids over here are terrible they shoot you for looking at them funny

Natalie, that's one of the least persuasive counter arguments I've ever read.

Edit: See? I can edit my post too. When I responded, your post said only:



The rest is all revisionist history. Including how you responded to my post after editing your original post, as if nothing had happened.

BTW, rope is commercially available. And making handguns commercially available is not at all like making children commercially available.

honest and to the point though isnt it ? its all that was needed to be said without being nasty


And yeah i edited my post coz it said shit instead of rubbish

Your ideals in america are not the same in europe please understand that and respect that
as we have common sense when it comes to Firearms
and common sense says dont hand the tools of the trade to killers which of course Guns are

Tell me different as i would love to hear it

I'm not against guns. As you stated, plenty in Norway. Thing is in my country, murder rate used to be measured in single figures for a year..but since the huge influx of muslim and eatern european immigrants..murder rate has shot thru the roof. The truth behind that is poverty. There is poverty in Norway among the immigrants that simply wasn't there before. Iceland was once excluded from all figures as they went ten years without a single murder. If ya wanna cut down murders..cut poverty.

In defence of USA and it's gun laws. Well, I can only go by my time here, but I can say there is FAR less random violence and it feels MUCH safer to walk the streets than UK. While UK might not have guns..it is quite brutal and yes, knives and all that..but quite common is kicked to death. The reason I feel US is more polite and more safe on the whole is that..you don't know who could be carrying a gun. Is some toughnut idiot from UK gona pick on someone when they might have a gun. In effect..the right to carry a gun and the laws to use them in self defence...well it frightens a lot of people..thus, making US streets much safer.

Point of fact is there is terrible violence on UK streets..its a free for all, mainly because of the pub culture. In US, much more respect and safer. Problem ain't the guns, its the to my mind seemingly lax laws about using them. There is no laws of tresspassing in Norway for example and for self defence the law of 'reasonable force'..shooting someone coming onto your land is not an option. Also another factor is we dont have 250 movies a year about our country glorifying gun behaviour and drugs.

So ... are you, like ... blaming it on the jews?

I agree that the gun lobbyists are doing no favors for the average citizens here. They refuse to agree to even the most sensible ideas like banning assault weapons and child proof gun locks. Probably due to their fear of 'slippery slope' as Glinda mentioned. Same mentality in many areas of society hinder making things better for folks.

Heh, damn crypto-judaism!

Err not really. I blame all them Al pacino chainsaw people up in the bathtub movies. Come on punk..make my day!

Glinda, I agree with you. I have always believed the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (which actually predates the Second Amendment to the US Constitution) is especially important to women and minorities.

I will give an example of where it was a deciding factor in the safety of a community of Blacks in Florida. This occurred during the early part of the Twentieth Century. A group of Ku Klux Klan (KKK) decided to go burn out the community of Blacks. They made a very big mistake: The Blacks had guns. Needless to say, the KKK members paid dearly.

I will respectfully disagree. I have been involved in competitive shooting for years. Sometimes being the sole distaff member present, I have gotten into teasing matches with the other shooters. The most notable feature of these teasing matches has been nobody has ever gotten angry. In fact, the experience has always been mutually entertaining.

I have shot in rimfire rifle competitions, service rifle centerfire rifle matches, bullseye pistol matches, PPC matches (along with friends, who were LEO), and Speed Shooting Matches. The people, with whom I shoot, have been some of my best friends.

What a strange culture. We usually just go to the pub and have a chat over a beer. Anyhoo, guns, girls don't usually get very excited about them..do they?

Yeah, well, guns and alcohol don't mix well, that's true. If it is a culture of alcoholics, maybe guns should not be legal. Or maybe just women should own guns. Now THAT would be a brave new world.

One reason, I got interested in shooting, was:

When I was 12, I was knocked down and groped. That was very frightening. I have very little desire to ever have that happen again.

Also, I was interested in finding a sport, where I could compete in equal footing. Shooting is not a sport that depends on extreme strength. In fact, some of the best shots are actually women.

I don't enjoy going out drinking. If I have a drink, it is in the company of friends at one of our homes.

Well, I'm sorry that happened to you. I wonder though if owning a gun would change that now. What are you going to do..shoot 4 people dead?

Yes, I've owned lots of guns, including an illegal AK-47. I never once thought about them in terms of self defence.

It's the laws of your country, if it makes ou feel safer, then that's that.

Started shooting tin cans with a 22 rifle at age 5. Grew up with a red rider in my hands. Received a doube 12 guage shotgun and a buck knife for my 16th birthday. Was a rifle and shotgun junior instructor at summer camp that same year, where I was sharpshooting champion.

Not much activity like that since I transitioned, but I own some target rifles and I can shoot one inch groups at 100 yards with a 4x scope from benchrest. My spouse is an ex army shooting champion. I've seen him shoot one hole at 50 yards standing, with iron sights.

We don't hunt at all and we don't go shooting often. But we are born and bred country folks. It's in our blood.