GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

The fact is:
The Canadian Criminal Justice system supports the FREEZE policy.
i.e., If a TS is under HRT, they will continue as such but not granted further treatment, that includes surgery.
So, this person will not likely even get hormones.

Not sayin' this is good or bad, but just the way it is at the moment in Canada.

Anyone wanting more info regarding TSs in the Canadian prison system please link here:
http://www.barbarafindlay.com/articles/45.pdf

Well, after all these years living in North America, I'm quite convinced the justice system here is just as it is in the Third World: mostly a political weapon. I know people who break the law left and right and are never bothered by law enforcement, heck you can see people selling buds downtown while laughing with the cops, while I also know people who have very clean lives who just get harassed out of the blue, due to political reasons.

I have a good reason to suspect a sizable portion of people in jail are there not because they committed crimes, even if that is the reason on paper, but because they were not wanted outside spreading certain types of information and ideas.

Rich people break the law in ways that most of us would never even consider doing, because if we did we know we'd land our arse in jail. But there's also the converse: some folks live like the stereotypical Black guy in the South, always with a patrol car tailing him. Some people have to be careful not to do anything even slightly illegal, throwing a bubblegum wrap in the street or jaywalking can land them in trouble, while others can sell X in the corners without being troubled.

That's just the way it is. So wisdom is to know how much in the red with the system your personal situation puts you. And live accordingly.

M you are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to say it is warped. Your perspective is not from a knowledge of the actual operations of Jails, Prisons and law enforcement but from observation of a statistically insignificant number of minor events.

As to this specific case I do agree that the individual may be attempting to increase the chances that he survives due to notoriety but that is mere speculation on both our parts.

As to the Freeze approach in the Canadian prison system it reflects the reality that taking away a person's liberty carries with it legal responsibility for the medical care necessary to avoid declines in health. There is no legal responsibility under statute or case law that requires improving a person's health as far as I know. Court challenges are always in process so maybe Canada has recently had prison system obligations increased but I doubt it or it would have probably made the news. For example under the Freeze obligations a person might need bad teeth pulled so they were capable of eating but there is no obligation to provide dentures and certainly not implants if teeth removal allows functional food consumption. Remember that whatever is done is at taxpayer expense and improving the medical condition or life of an inmate who is incarcerated for crimes against society has never been an authorized tax dollar expenditure. Even such things as exercise yards and exercise periods are only provided to allow the health of inmates to be maintained not improved.

Ok Marci, I put the chainsaws away...

If this person was subjected to any of the programs Marci listed that would be nightmarish and would in fact lead to person having further life issues.

I honestly didn't think the Canadian government could be that bad. Boy was I wrong.

The person needs treatment true (heck, they’ll need long term care and treatment for the rest of their life), but past bad acts...

Therapy, yes, HRT? ok sure...SRS? that could be further torture to that person.

There is NO right answer here, none at all.

It’s sad that the state damaged this person in a program worthy of the Nazi’s Dr.Mengele. Therefore the state has culpability for that persons actions after those dehumanizing events and should be held accountable for that.
Monetary? Money doesn’t buy a mind or a life back.

I don’t know if this person needs SRS, you can’t tell from a few brief sentences in a news article.
But… this person does deserve some justice of some kind.

Is this person even in jail? It didn't say she was in jail but has been jailed in the past.

I'm not sure what the issue is - give the girl her SRS.

If she is in jail she can wait till she gets out, quite frankly. Punishment is punishment.

No, Vance Egglestone was put in a mental institution for the criminally insane right after they (Egglestone and his first lawyer) started the process against the Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre in 1998.

According to it, over 200 men between 1968 and 1982 were subjected to torture as methods of "Social Therapy." The suit involved not just the Mental Health Centre, but several top politicians of the time, who allowed the existence of the place and even benefited from it.

In 2000 it became a class action suit, collecting the testimony of many other individuals and claiming jail terms for some doctors (including Ontario’s Attorney General and psychiatrist Elliot Barker). Since then, most of the other people taking part have dropped out, some in very strange circumstances.

In 2001 Egglestone started this whole "transsexual in distress" sketch that has kept him in the public eye, to our detriment (and more so in Canada). However, if one follows the case, it seems it may be an act to keep attention focused on him. As is, right now he's in the Oak Ridge facility in Penetanguishene, Ontario.

Yes, the same place where he and many others were tortured in the 60s and 70s. In fact, some of the people in charge today are the same who were working there in 1982, when the torture methods were discontinued. Vance Egglestone aka Shauna Taylor is 52, born in 1956. Vance was there since the age of 16 to the age of 21, that is from 1972 to 1977.

The Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre operated as a "Social Therapy Unit" from 1968 to 1982. As per the suit, human experimentation was carried in there with the knowledge of the top politicians of the province. These included sleep deprivation, use of drugs like LSD and Scopolamine, sensory deprivation and electricity.

It's scary stuff.

http://bacque.graeme.tripod.com/HRA/hra_14.pdf

That article sounds biased. Scopolamine wasn't developed by the Nazi's, it's a natural chemical found in Jimsonweed. Angels Trumpet, and various Nightshades.

I have no doubts that Psychiatric facilities did some cruel things, no doubt about it, though.

Maybe biased isn't the right word. Exaggerating the truth, perhaps.

If she's a resident of Ontario she's out of luck, cause Ontario isn't paying for SRS. As far as I know Health Care is a provincial matter.

Though I would say the legal implications of the case could benefit the trans community in the provinces that are not currently funding it, it's a different matter entirely for the legal system to have either 1) a MtF in a male prison/facility, and 2) The name of the person convicted, if it is male, putting that person in a female prison/institution after SRS, even though they've been convicted of serious crimes against women.

I would say, if the person convicted is legally female, there would be a better chance. But then, that's a non-issue with this.

I'm not all too familiar with the mental health facilities, but from what I know about where I was, the guys and girls were in the same place. I guess maybe that's a different circumstance, is this Oak Ridge divided between male and female? Does anyone know?

This case is interesting.