GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

Can't we laugh at ourselves .....

Can't we laugh at ourselves .....

I didn't find it terribly distressing and I think a "campaign" on behalf of Amanda against the skit will only do harm to Amanda. If she is offended then by all means get BEHIND her, if not let it go and move on.

Can't we laugh at ourselves .....

I didn't find it terribly distressing and I think a "campaign" on behalf of Amanda against the skit will only do harm to Amanda. If she is offended then by all means get BEHIND her, if not let it go and move on.

I agree about this dying out.

If they know they can hurt you deeply, you can bet they'll do it again.

Sometimes it's better to play it soft and ignore it.

I agree about this dying out.

If they know they can hurt you deeply, you can bet they'll do it again.

Sometimes it's better to play it soft and ignore it.

I dropped my 5 cents in ....

I just wanted to complain about David Lettermans disgusting joke regarding Transgendered woman Amanda Simpson! This disgusting attitude is ill mannered and should not be taken so lightly. Amanda is a transgendered woman, this is something she cannot do anything about but be true to herself. It's not a choice to be transgendered it just is! Nor is it a choice to be black or white ect! You wouldn't dare make such racial jokes. So where do you get off making such ill mannered jokes about a people you know so little about? SHAME ON YOU! This woman has obviously worked very hard past obstacles no run of the mill person could ever fathom! And she is doing well to be offered such a good job. Only to be torn down by narrow minded stereotypical ignorant biggots like Letterman? All I can say is FOR SHAME! AND HOW DARE HE! AND HOW DARE YOU CBS! I hope you should never have to endure such cruel blatent predejuice. Let alone on the daily basis that many Transgendered individuals have to just to be themselves. What a cruel cruel world and what a ugly network to think so little of it.

Greatly dissappointed and disgusted in this blatent crude display of ignorance and intolerance.

IMHO, the best thing for Amanda would be for the hype to die down so she can get down to doing her new job.

I think that they need to be educated and probably didn't think about who they're hurting by doing this. A little education wouldn't hurt and the best way to do that is email CBS. It's certainly not going to hurt anything and it's anonymous. Raising a public stink about it and merely asking CBS to think twice about allowing tranny jokes on Letterman are two different things.

Obviously, not many of us would like to be outed to millions of people like that.

And, depending on how you look at it, the joke could actually be on the guy who stormed off of the set, upset that she used to be a man. He was playing the role of the guy who finds out that a woman he thought was pretty (and maybe more)... "used to be a man." In a way, and depending on how someone interprets it, it could show that it's silly to judge someone like this. The skit exemplifies the fact that you can't always tell who is transgender and who is not. I think that's actually important, since a lot of people are convinced that they can always tell. I've been standing around guys who were talking about a girl who was trans around me and they were saying that they could tell she was trans... that they can ALWAYS tell. Yet, they didn't have a clue that I'm also trans. They were saying some degrading things about her and basically saying that she was gross. In a way, I sort of wanted to tell them that I'm trans, too, just to prove a point. But, I didn't because I didn't want them to then see me the same way.

I find on the rare occasions I have announced myself the reaction is always "oh yeah I knew all along". . . . then I know they are full of **it!

In Canada, we're just too polite to ever even suggest humour based on differences. The person by your side could be an orange midget dressed as a chicken, and you're not supposed to notice. That's the right way of being, politeness above all. Hence, social interaction is incredibly strained. Any little move can be a terrible faux pas, something that will smear your social value for a long time. As a consequence, we're a very divided society, and it's very rare to see groups of people that are mixed in composition.

Basically, the degree to which sense of humour is allowed seems to correlate with actual integration.

Perhaps peacefulness and openness are inversely proportional, and the price to pay to live in a society with no crime and no fights is to always be on your toes about never bothering anyone. Perhaps the price to pay for having no enemies is having no true friends, either.

Speaking as a professional writer, who's written a lot of comedy material (you wouldn't guess it, I know, from what I post on here, but I have!), I have mixed feelings about this. Obviously the notion that a woman who 'used to be a dude' is so shocking that it makes a man want to leave the stage and (presumably) vomit is, to put it mildly, negative. And yes, it reinforces prejudices ..

Or does it?

Look at it another way and the joke is on the guy who can't handle the fact that Amanda is transgender. Now who's problem is that: hers ... or his?

Any time you make a joke about any kind of minority, you invariably tread on all kinds of sensitivities: even if you come from that minority. Chris Rock's routines about the difference between black people and niggers would be complete unsayable from a white comedian ... but they were pretty shocking to many black people when he came out with them, too. Does that mean he should have kept his mouth shut?

When Sacha Baron-Cohen made Bruno, he was mocking the people who couldn't handle someone as 'out' as this crazy Austrian fashion victim. But lots of gay men felt that he was using and abusing negative stereotypes about gays. Who was right or wrong here?

Personally, I think that the ability to make and take a joke is part of the process of acceptance. My closest friend is Jewish. He knows I define myself as TS, even tho I haven't transitioned. I can make gags about his religion. He can call me a chick (and plenty more besides). Neither of us takes any offence because we take our friendship for granted and know that either of us could totally rely on the other in any time of need. When I do transition, he will support me all the way, and that's what counts.

Now, David Letterman is not Amanda's BFF so far as I know. But if you look at the sketch, his attitude is not mocking towards her. If anything, the look he gives the guy who runs off stage is much more disdainful.

In the end, the fact that this subject can be joked about on network TV and the joke is on someone who pretends to be shocked seems to me, on balance, to be positive. My guess is that if Amanda went on Letterman next week she'd get a huge round of applause. People would like the fact that she could handle the joke and if she came across well, which I'm sure she would, they would very quickly warm to her and admire her.

You may say, 'Why should she have to handle the joke?' Well, because life is better if we can see the funny side of things and learn that there is a difference between self-respect and pomposity: we don't have to take ourselves TOO seriously. If I were advising Amanda right now, I'd say she should make a joke back, then go on Letterman and wow everyone.

Th net result would be incredibly positive for her ... and all other transgender people ... And - whether we like it or not - it would garner far more acceptance and respect than whining about discrimination.

After you've transitioned and have been openly (and often) mocked in public for being a 'tranny', come back and tell us how your opinions have changed.
You lack the necessary experience to understand the implications and ramifications of such a skit.

and were you wise you might search for a way to handle such incidents gracefully instead of belligerently.

Obviously you haven't a clue since you ask.

That's why people ask questions.
So, what the fuck were you talking about?

I did answer the question. I guess you failed to grasp it.

So it puzzles you that I consider Diana and Marcella to have a better prospective on the Letterman incident than your own tirade? I can't see how that has anything to do with the sky but if you want to divert off topic I can't object.

and were you wise you might search for a way to handle such incidents gracefully instead of belligerently.

Are you saying that you don't understand how to handle incidents gracefully or that you object to the term belligerently? I took your attempt to "put down" Diana as inexperienced and assert therefore her incapability of reaching a valid conclusion as a form of belligerence but maybe you could clarify that. Did you mean it somehow in a complimentary way?

Right, so you saw my comment to Diana as 'belligerent'.
It is not 'belligerent' - it's the truth.
She hasn't transitioned, so she has no post-transition experience. Pretty simple.
If I hadn't transitioned and started spouting off about what is good for transitioned women, I'd fully expect to get slapped down with a "STFU."
And I imagine you'd be the one saying it too.

So when you have lost your testicles and had surgery to create a Vagina or Pseudo Vagina then your own insights will be equal to mine?

I think that Deena is trying to say that you may be lacking in the diplomacy department.YMMV

There is a huge difference between a skit poking fun at the people who think all Arabs are Muslim Fundamentalists, and someone shouting "raghead" to anyone who looks Middle Eastern in the street.

The Letterman skit was mocking more the horrified reaction of the announcer, IMO, than Amanda herself.

It was not good for us, yes, and some anger is justified, but telling the TV shows not to use us as a subject for their skits and jokes?

Sorry but that's stupid. Who the heck do we think we are to think we're above humour? Muslim fundies?

It was not good for us, yes, and some anger is justified, but telling the TV shows not to use us as a subject for their skits and jokes?

After you've transitioned and have been openly (and often) mocked in public for being a 'tranny', come back and tell us how your opinions have changed.
You lack the necessary experience to understand the implications and ramifications of such a skit.

After you've transitioned to having a sense of humour by all means feel free to tell me I don't understand what's happening on a TV comedy sketch.

By that logic any cis male who 'studies' trans people in an academic environment is better qualified to talk about us than any non academic trans person. Its like saying that you understand womens issues cos you've studied sewing.

Sorry, I'm not buying your privilege.

I ran a moderately popular webcomic for roughly 3 years, so I'm quite qualified to play the comedy/humour card.
So get fucked

You're quite right. I apologise. You have provided one example of humour. You have, 'Moral superiority is the refuge of the intellectually bankrupt' written beneath every post you make.