GenderLife Forum: The Information Exchange

Here's an email I got, from someone in an internet support group, listing some basic tips on passing:

"Some of the things you need to do are:
1) Acquire appropriate clothes that most women your age group wear—jeans, skirts, blouses, lower heels, flats, layered looks, and coats for the seasons.

2) Practice your voice as much as possible, record it and listen to it, then pick one that sounds the best and keep practicing that one.

3) A good support group is helpful, many girls are already living full time and you can get one on one info from them.

4) Watch your movements when walking, don't over do them and watch how GG's move.

5) When talking, most women use their hands to articulate, use your hands when you talk.

6) Makeup—good makeup where less is more is the best way to wear makeup, you don't want to look like you put it on with a trowel.

7) When eating, take small portions per mouthful; women don't stuff their food in the mouth like men do, and eat slowly, which will help with maintaining your weight or help reduce it if that is needed.

8) Shave as closely as possible to hide your shadow and facial hair.

9) Shave your legs—get a good multi blade hand shaver or good electric if you prefer that, but I find the hand shaver works best for me.

10) If you have hair on your chest that can show then shave that as well.

11) Start laser if you are dark hair color or if not start electrolysis.

12) Epilate your arms, buy a good epilator; "Braun" are good but some other brands may be also, don't forget to remove hair from your fingers, too.


I will stop here since #13 is an unlucky number. I wish you well with your transition.

Huggs, Bobbie Jane"

Umm, I think the most important part of "passing" is to just be yourself. All of the learned traits of a woman might help someone to fake it, but if its not whats really inside, it is just mechanics.

LOLZ! Whoever wrote this has never met any of my female friends. They don't give a rat's ass about shovelling food.
Yay stereotypes!



Wax.



If you're a Sasquatch. Otherwise, don't bother. My ex had really hairy arms and it didn't detract from her femininity. If anything, people will notice nude arms and think that it is odd.

When passing check for oncoming traffic and turn on your left blinker.

LOL! Unless you're in the UK, then you'd be an idiot to do that.

Wow it didn't say never drink beer out of a bottle haha!

In the UK you drive on the left side of the road and pass on the right. That would require your right blinker. Am I wrong or am I going out of mind? Thanks for the brain cramp Rachel!

I remember reading about a MTF having to learn how to "hold" a beer bottle, though, and this past New Year's I was out drinking en femme, which I ALWAYS am now, with RLE, and I kept catching myself holding my Miller Lite like a man, like I was about to bash somebody's face in with it. It was just so natural, after so many years of habit, that it was hard for me to stop it if I didn't stay conscious of it. Thank goddess I seldom drink.

BINGO

LOL! I read that as "'But' if you were in the UK, you'd be an idiot to do that."

In much of the world we drive on the left - and have our steering wheels on the right side of the car.

As for beer - it comes ready packaged, I'll often drink from the bottle - it's harder to spill, and it's harder to spike.

Would you care to fill us in on what the correct way is for a woman to hold a beer bottle?.Just wondering...because I"d like to know if the way I hold a bottle(beer or otherwise)is correct or not...I hold it as far down to the bottom as possible.

Wow, this way cool; especially towards the bottom of the page where it delineates which countries drive left and which drive right: http://www.i18nguy.com/driver-side.html

Idk, whatever it was that I read didn't say, but it's my guess that men are more apt to hold it towards the bottom and/or with most or all of their fingers. Perhaps a woman is more dainty with it, and holds it closer to the top with as few fingers as possible?

Hold it by the neck so that you can put your thumb over the mouth of the bottle in a crowd. Also keeps the drink cool longer.

Just make sure you keep your thumb out of your ass, too.

Honey - if you had ever known a woman who'd had her drink spiked then maybe you wouldn't have your head quite so far up your ass.

What is your problem?

I stated clearly that that was to avoid having your drink spiked.

Maybe in your little fantasy world that never happens, but you're in for a big shock one day.

Oh no...not again

Also, "Rupee's" are quite prevalent here in the USA - I know someone who's been in prison for it for 15 years and counting.

And you can drop the attitude that you seem to have with me.

Nah - not again - I give up - someone is living in a fluffy little fantasy world where they're queen bee and everything is lace and candy.

...and it aint me.

Taking the piss out of someone who says to watch out of drink spikers.

Ignore.

PLEASE DO, "honey".

That's enough, you two!

I don't try to "pass". That word implies deception. I am a woman, not a wanna be woman. I blend in with the surrounding fauna quite well, because I am not even thinking about it.

All,
Personal mean spirited 'sparring,' while entertaining for those taking part, is not entertaining for most of us. And, if one reads the rules, it should be fairly clear that the administration doesn't look fondly at people going after either other in the public forum.

If ya have issues with another member, PM one of the moderators, ignore them, or otherwise deal with it 'out back'

Now, for back to our scheduled programming...

A few things I've noticed about folk who are start starting out.
A number seem to pattern after their mothers and their mothers generation. Not surprising, actually. However, if you start dressing that part, you'll look way older than you are, and likely way older than most around you. Quite unfortunate.

Others seem to go for the teenager look. Again not surprising. Most of the images of 'womanhood' seem to consist of sexualized barely adult 'hot young things.'
If you're a 20 year old, hey, you probably won't pick up too much crap dressing that. If you're 50, well, dressing like a 20 year old with skirts that are basically belts, etc...that's bound to draw some attention.

I don't think you necessarily need to dress right at your age though. I dress probably 10+ years younger than my true age. Probably 'cause I hang out with that crowd and do the same things they do (I don't have kids so I don't need to do the mom with kids stuff.)

Oh, and for goodness sake...wear clothing that fits.

Wasn't entertaining, but I've said my piece.

Why did you reply in this manner?

Vex I spoke to Rachel and she meant it as a generic "you" not as an insult to Emma.

That's why she quoted me - Ohhhh *nods*

Ya'll have a lovely [time of day].

{Secret squirrel mission}

So it was an insult to everyone?

Vex it's an American expression and was meant as a joke.

It's an international expression and it wasn't funny.

I believe is comes from the old world expression "Pull your thumb outta yer arse"

Which translates in kiwi to "stop being such an uptight wanker"

You can be offended when none was intended if you want to. I think this is a matter of cultural misunderstanding. Rachel could have been more explicit and stated it was meant as a "generic you" but that is water under the dam. It's your choice to take it personally when it was not intended as such.

If it wasn't directed at Emma, then the comment makes no sense in the context of the conversation - be it joke, culturalism or whatever.

It was an extremely deliberate attack on me specifically in response to my comment that if you hold a bottle by the neck you can put your thumb over the mouth to avoid having a rapist slip drugs into your drink. If you think anything else, well, I hope that bridge was cheap.

Our government funds campaigns to teach young women how to look after themselves whilst out having a good time - it's a pity that your 'culture' thinks that this education is unacceptable.

There is more difference between cultures within your country by the way than between yours and mine - Your (personal 'your') culture is probably completely incoherent to many of your country persons.

TWIMC: It was not my intention to offend anybody; I meant my comment "generally", not specifically. And it wasn't even implied in a mean way. Why else would I type a Happy Face after it?

My exwife used to call a friend of ours up, and the way she always started every phone conversation, no matter who she was talking to, was by saying, "What are you doing?", and this particular guy would always say, "Sitting here with my thumb up my ass (meaning, 'I'm doing nothing'), what are you doing?"

That phrase was the first thing that came to mind when I saw someone write about sticking their thumb in their beer.

I apologize if I've offended anyone, but with the attitude that has been directed towards me in the past few days by the other party involved, I really don't care WHAT she thinks, anymore.~ Rachel

If I could hijack this thread's version of the ongoing cat fight for a moment...

I do try to "pass". Unlike many of you I'm still "part time". My therapist told me some time ago that emotionally and developmentally I am a 13 yr old girl and that is true in a lot of ways. Due to my stunted development I consider myself to be a girl who is trying to learn how to be a woman. Just like all girls this involves watching women and adopting their behavior as it fits my personality. It also means learning the things about how to dress and behave that my mother was unfortunately negligent in teaching me. Am I deceiving anyone? Well, yes. Just like the thirteen year old who tries to look like she's 25. I'm trying to learn how to "grow up". Socialization tips are important to me. I am still not completely comfortable in public and anything that I can learn to draw less attention to myself while I'm in public makes my transition easier (by the way Vex, our conversation that night last fall really did help reduce my stress and you were right, I did do ok. Thanks again).


We now return you to our, unfortunately, regularly scheduled flame wars...

My therapist, told me that as time went by , you will become more comfortable being out in public. One thing to always do is smile alot. It can really break the tension if someone is staring at you. Sometimes it doesn't work with guys. I think some men don't know how to smile.

Being as tall as I am, I get stared at alot. Most of the comments I overhear." That is a tall woman"

The area I live in, most women dress in jeans, and some type of blouse. Now and then You will see a lady with a skirt. I wear a lot of turtlenecks or mock turtlenecks. I also, wear a lot of scarves,helps to cover adams apple. Plus it is very european.

My apologies to my friends in the Southern Hemisphere. September is obviously Spring not Fall! I was in too much of a hurry to get out the door this morning and didn't do a good job of proofreading before I pressed the "Submit" button!

No problem Fey. I'm glad I helped in some way!
As we say in NZ: Kia Kaha! (stand strong/tall!)

All,
If the cat fight continues, I'll start to hand out vacations. If you need to make your case that you're not catfighting, do it to me in PM, not to the public forum (otherwise i'll consider a vacation.) If you discuss the behavior of other members (such as saying 'she started it') I'll consider giving you a vacation.
Everyone just step back, calm down and get back to the discussion at hand.


At that,
I agree with Fey's therapist. A lot of us basically become 12 year old girls. A lot of factors add to that. The physical changes of going through puberty, learning makeup, clothing, learning to acting like women, learning to deal with the emotional effects of a hormone wash, learning to deal with the opposite sex, learning about the social place of women in society.
A teenagers statement of "I'm not a child, treat me like a woman," seems pretty darn close to "I'm not a man, treat me like a woman."

It takes a teenage girl a number of years to grow into a woman. Heck, some take decades it seems. We may be able to compress that time, but heck, I've not seen many who blossom in the year it takes to go from starting out to surgery (in the US.)

In

Yes, a smile will usually disengage someone's hostility towards you. And as transsexuals, we need to do as much as we can to assuage the general public's learned prejudices towards us. More flies are caught with honey than vinegar.

Leforge is a righteous dude.

Word!

I think a good exercise would be watching men and women together. Compare. You'll get a pretty good idea of social manner differences. :-)

Bravo ..... and BTW in Australia the term is "take ya HEAD out ya arse".... typical of us Aussies taking it one step further!




I look back at times thinking OMG what the hell was I thinking, other times I look back even further and think "who was that man?"

One thing I would suggest to anyone is part time is a waste of time. In My OPINION being part time is akin to being a Transvestite/Cross Dresser/Drag Queen rather than someone transitioning as a Transsexual into their proper sex. Again this is my experience and opinion here so I offer my apologies if I put a nose or two out of joint, but either you is or you ain't. Can't practice this.