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#308637 - 03/10/09 12:56 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Roxanne]
Madison_2112 Offline
Frequent Flyer

Registered: 06/09/05
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Roxanne
If this person does have GID, wouldn't one consider withholding 'medically necessary' treatment while someone is incarcerated to be 'Cruel and Unusual punishment?'


I see that you're not using pronouns Roxanne, which implies you may possibly also have reservations about "this person['s]" true gender feelings. I'm using male pronouns because I see this person as a man who sexually assaults women. Maybe I'll feel differently when I cool down. But, I was molested when I was younger and what he did is so wrong and hurtful. This is someone who, as a man, sexually assaulted women on two documented occasions (who knows how many were NOT documented). Now, he may have done that because he truly had GID and took his feelings out on innocent women who lived life the way he wished to. But, he also may be obsessed with the female form and may simply wish to be the object of his own desires. Another possibility is that he may feel so guilty for what he has done that he would rather be a woman so he can never again do such things.

I don't know if anyone will ever truly know if he actually has GID or not. I have my doubts about it. After 9 years of gender transition, you'd think the GID is legitimate (and perhaps it is). But, I think that by his own actions, he established that he has some serious mental issues. There are thousands of us who cannot afford SRS for ourselves. I don't think it's fair that someone of his character proclaims that they have GID and gets their surgery for free. It seems the problem is between his ears, not between his legs.

Quote:
Would it be ok to withhold HIV drugs from a gay inmate because they could be seen as giving gay men a bad name?


I didn't mean to imply that giving him SRS gives us a bad name ;-). I just think that stories like this are damaging to trans people. What is the reason for posting the article? Is it to simply disseminate information about an occurrence? Or is the article a subtle call to action? Is it propaganda?

I think that a gay person with HIV should be given drugs to keep them alive. It can easily be proven that the man is gay, has HIV, and will die without treatment. But, in this case, you have a sex offender who did unspeakable things to women and is now claiming that he has been one all along? Nope, I'm not buying it. That's like someone beating black people and owning them as slaves, only to one day say... I didn't really mean it. I want to be black, too. I just thought that was how white folk were supposed to act. For me, the nature of his offense makes me suspicious of his having GID at all. Now, maybe that's a bit unfair, but that's the way I feel. How would any of you feel if he raped your sister and the government funded his SRS but denied yours?

Quote:
Would withholding GID treatment from the inmate imply that such treatment is not medically necessary, and how would that affect us.


It certainly could. I'd like to think that a person can go to jail, serve their time, and come out rehabilitated. But, after having sexually assaulted women once and being lucky enough to not be found guilty, he went and did it again. Was that really the last time? I generally think that once you do your time and are set free, you should enjoy the liberties that everyone has. I just don't believe he has GID. I may be completely wrong in that feeling and I admit it. But, I just don't trust him. He did unspeakable things to women and then says he's one, too? Sure. I think he's a perverted man.
_________________________
I may not be the woman I always wanted to be, but I'll always be a woman.

-Me

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#308640 - 03/10/09 01:25 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Madison_2112]
Roxanne Offline



Registered: 01/28/03
Loc: Seattle, WA
I suspect he doesn't have GID either, and is perhaps preparing for an appeal on grounds of 'insanity' if there is such a thing in Canada.
However, for other individuals, that may not be the case.
_________________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
- Frank Herbert

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#308641 - 03/10/09 01:38 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Roxanne]
Vanna1 Offline

Ultimate Goddess

Registered: 02/21/07
Loc: Spaces untraveled spaces...
Originally Posted By: Roxanne
If this person does have GID, wouldn't one consider withholding 'medically necessary' treatment while someone is incarcerated to be 'Cruel and Unusual punishment?'


I read that article,and it doesn"t say whether or not that person is in jail at this time?.I don"t think so.I think that person is currently out of jail,and was just in court asking for $$$$$.Maybe I missed something when I read it?


Edited by Vannagirl (03/10/09 02:08 PM)
_________________________
"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone"--Al Capone

Sorry,but you have no choice...keep moving along please...

The living past...here and gone...

Self preservation...the weak link between ideas and action.

At times when the bar is set too high...it's sometimes best to just go under it instead.



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#308643 - 03/10/09 03:07 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Vanna1]
Gina9223 Offline


Registered: 11/29/05
Loc: right here, right now
…..ok….
I’m conflicted, really really conflicted.

As a sexual abuse and sexual assault survivor I want to use a chainsaw on this person. Do they even realize how much damage they have done to others in this life? How dare they!

As someone with GID I know how devastating it would be to deny someone who truly has GID from getting the required surgeries that are needed to transition.

I’m so glad that I don’t have to make this decision.

I only know one thing, Marcella should get her SRS before this human scum gets the correct time of day.

Oh and I read some of the comments on the website and its just short of people quoting Silence of the Lambs. Way to go ‘girl’ friend…… anyone got a chainsaw?

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#308652 - 03/10/09 04:14 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Gina9223]
Marcella Offline
Misanthropic Cow

Registered: 03/31/03
Loc: Pasture
This is getting a bit darker, actually.

Vance Egglestone, aka Shauna Taylor, now 52, was one of the people who participated and survived three Canadian programs of "rehabilitation" in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Perhaps little known in the USA is the fact that, unlike most countries around the world, Canada allowed for human experimentation with prisoners until fairly recentyl (1989).

People in prisons and teens in reformatory places could be "treated" with drugs, electricity, and other methods now considered "torture" just to see how their behaviour could be modified.

Three of those methods were:

- Motivation, Attitude, Participation Program -

"The M.A.P. program involved rotating groups of between four to eight men who were forced to sit on a bare Terrazo floor for approximately eight hours daily without being permitted more than two moves per group. Standing was not permitted and failure to comply with the non-movement orders and other directives with the M.A.P. program resulted in the individual being verbally confronted, heavily sedated with Nozinan or Largactil, put in restraints or placed in solitary confinement.

Prior to placement in the M.A.P. program, participants were placed in solitary confinement for a period of time."

http://www.oakridgeclassaction.ca/map.htm

- Total Encounter Capsule Program -

"The Capsule is a small windowless room with dimensions approximately 8’ x 10’. Groups of four or more men would be stripped naked and placed in the Capsule for periods of up to two weeks at a time. The space was always lit, leading the men to be unable to distinguish day from night, confusion, disorientation, and serious confrontations between the men ensued.

During detention in the Capsule, the men were given various drugs including LSD and other hallucinogens.

The only nourishment provided to the men in the Capsule were in beverage form and had to be consumed through the use of straws inserted through holes in the Capsule food dispensers."

http://www.oakridgeclassaction.ca/capsule.htm

- Defence Disruptive Therapy -

"Defence Disruptive Therapy program was an experimental program developed by Dr. Barker in the mid-1960’s. The program consisted of injecting inmates with drugs suggested to psychiatrists by other patients. These included LSD, amphetamines and Ritalin, and were frequently mixed together with alcohol resulting in toxic hallucinogenic cocktails.
Predictably, by late 1967, the patients who received “treatment” under this program experienced an increased risk of homicide and suicide."

http://www.oakridgeclassaction.ca/ddt.htm

An interesting statistic is that out of over 100 people who participated in those programs, 62 committed suicide, according to what I've read. Most of the others died of drug overdoses or in accidents. In fact, Vance Egglestone (who was one of the guinea pigs when he was 16-21) is the only survivor left of the group in the Penetanguishene Youth Rehab Program that functioned from 1967 to 1979.

There is a class action suit against the people involved in the human experimentation in the camp (which lies by what today is a Naval Base) and the only person fit to declare against those people is, you guessed it, Vance Egglestone:

http://bacque.graeme.tripod.com/HRA/HRA_14.html

The systematic torture of teens in Penetanguishene and two other places in Ontario unleashed a full investigation of Canada as a violator of Human Rights back in the 80s, which ended with the cancelation of all programs using drugs, sleep deprivation, injection of extraneous substances and isolation in Youth Camps (interestingly, most of the subjects were First Nations).

There may be a lot more to what we see in the initial article. I have my suspicion that Mr. Egglestone may commit "suicide" any of these days. Some of the people who tried accusing the perpetrators of these crimes died under very shady circumstances (one was detained for a speed violation and overdosed himself while in custody back in 1992).
_________________________
This a spiritual thing and I am the laughing Buddha sitting on top of the world. Donnalee.

"Populace above, populace below! What are 'poor' and 'rich' at present! That distinction did I unlearn,—then did I flee away further and ever further, until I came to those kine." --Thus Spake Zarathustra / Friedrich Nietzsche.

http://my.funtrivia.com/tournament/Callies-quiz-75578.html

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#308660 - 03/10/09 05:18 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Marcella]
Marcella Offline
Misanthropic Cow

Registered: 03/31/03
Loc: Pasture
And from what I read, there are two interesting things:

- one, over 50 people who were held in such programs were still out there in 1998, ready to participate in the class action suit through the legal firm of Rochon Genova. The main plaintiff is Vance Hamilton Egglestone.

- two, Egglestone is since 1999 in police custody in an institution for the criminally insane. His case has been on and off in the news, and the media attention started when in 1999 his lawyer said on TV that his client was under threat of death. I have not found what was the cause for the government to put him in this facility all of a sudden in 1999, considering he had been free since 1988 and started the class action suit in 1998. Seems a bit strange that someone who was out and about as a sane person is put in a mental institution right after he sues the government, no?

Also, the people who are in charge of the place where Egglestone is now are the same people who were in charge of the Penetanguishene Mental Health Centre back in the 70s and 80s when he was interned there and subjected to the "correctional methods" now condemned. The Oakridge Division is in fact besides the place of the old program.

Ok, let's think a bit. You were abused by your government, you start a class action suit with other 50 people who survived.* Out of those 50, some start dying (suicide, overdose, strange circumstances) so that they all leave the court action after some payment, quiet settlements. Since you're the person who started the whole ruckus, you cannot just leave.

Then you get put in custody (because all of a sudden your government finds you a danger to the public) and you know your life is not worth a dime at that point. But you have a good lawyer, who runs to the press and says that his client is in fear of his life. The press pays little attention.

What could you do to grab the attention of the media, something that will keep you in the public eye for years and ensure that you're not just found dead in your cell?

---
* http://www.oakridgeclassaction.ca/document/vol%201/Vol%201%20sec%202.pdf
_________________________
This a spiritual thing and I am the laughing Buddha sitting on top of the world. Donnalee.

"Populace above, populace below! What are 'poor' and 'rich' at present! That distinction did I unlearn,—then did I flee away further and ever further, until I came to those kine." --Thus Spake Zarathustra / Friedrich Nietzsche.

http://my.funtrivia.com/tournament/Callies-quiz-75578.html

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#308661 - 03/10/09 05:25 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Marcella]
Pink Cat Offline



Registered: 05/16/07
Loc: Oregon,
I have a chainsaw. konk

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#308663 - 03/10/09 05:34 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Pink Cat]
Karen S Offline

Weather Mouse

Registered: 06/28/04
Loc: Metro Detroit...
Quick Reply...One license plate at a time.
_________________________
There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom. ~ Anais Nin

You can blow out a candle
But you can't blow out a fire
Once the flames begin to catch
The wind will blow it higher
~ Peter Gabriel Biko

"Real isn't how you are made. It's a thing that happens to you." The Velveteen Rabbit



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#308671 - 03/10/09 07:17 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: cartografia]
Diana Offline



Registered: 08/05/06
Loc: Rhymes with Orange
I'd suggest locking him in a room at the Clarke Clinic with Bailey, Blanchard, Zucker and let them try reparitive therapy to cure him - hoping he had a psychotic breakdown.
_________________________
Diana

"The opportunity of a lifetime must be seized within the lifetime of the opportunity" Leonard Ravenhill

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#308674 - 03/10/09 07:45 PM Re: Canadian rapist demands sex change [Re: Diana]
Evevoices Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/10/08
Well, that bit of history DOES add a bit of perspective to this whole thing. I am not in favor of sexually assaulting people, but I am not in favor of torturing the shit out of people either.

Insane mental torture -> sexual assault -> trans identifying?

I can't say whether they truly are trans, but Marcella, your theory is interesting. I would like to see this case follow through, and it is really disturbing just how... disturbing mental institutions and the type of people who run them are.

Also, just because he committed a crime/sexually assaulted a person doesn't mean that he isn't trans.

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